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Post by The Cats on Oct 25, 2018 16:15:55 GMT -5
C'mon. That includes scholarships! You can say what you want, but you shouldn't start rumors when it is clear you haven't done your homework. Schollies for MBB would be about $900K at Furman, maybe $300K for us. For football, more like $4M at FU compared to our $1.2M.
Fake news! I think you are the one trying to mislead folks. I took all the numbers for each school's athletic budgets as posted on the website "The Equity in Athletics Analysis Cutting Tool" (This database consists of athletics data that are submitted annually as required by the Equity in Athletics Disclosure Act (EADA) by all co-educational postsecondary institutions that receive Title IV funding (i.e., those that participate in federal student aid programs) and that have an intercollegiate athletics program.) I also took the figures for WCU and Furman's basketball & football expenditures off the same website (I selected those two schools because Furman had the highest athletic budget and Western Carolina has the lowest athletic budget). I took the tuition costs for both of those schools off their respective website (which I left a link to) so folks could look at how the cost of tuition at those two schools would be reflected in their respective budgets. As you may or may not know, public schools are required to publicly post such things as athletic budgets, however, private schools do not have to make this data known to the public. The only way to compare public and private schools is from such sites such as the Equity in Athletics site. So, I don't appreciate you calling this "fake news", if it's fake, it's fake because either the schools submitted fake data to the federal government, or the federal government published fake data. The tuition costs for each school comes straight off their official website, so it could, in fact, be fake data as well. If you are in fact a recent WCU grad, you should know about the cost of tuition at WCU.
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Post by mtncat1 on Oct 26, 2018 17:52:03 GMT -5
We should take 1 week out of each month and fax the crap out of the White House - Attention : Chancellor and Board Members 828.227.7176 Example : Please invest in our football facilities. Pressbox, Indoor Practice Field, Pressure Wash East Side along with updating Restrooms should be Phase 1. *Plenty of Free Fax APPS on smartphones. And also FAX 828.227.7498 OK folks, here's the latest as I heard it straight from the horses mouth in my discussion I had this week that I mentioned I'd have in another post. I'll start with this: The conversation was not that uplifting.
First, the good parts (and it's not that good). Randy has been able to renegotiate contracts signed under Bardo and Belcher with leading sponsors in order to have more funds given to the football program such as doubling the recruiting T&E budget to make that part of the budget on par with the rest of the conference. Additional monies have been moved around as well. The indoor practice facility is still on the radar and in the works. The only thing that has delayed the process is differences of view on WHERE it should be. Some in Admin don't want it in the parking lot by the field house and want it further out. They can't build it on the intramural field across the creek because it is flood plain and won't pass muster with new codes for where you build. As I was told, contrary to what has been said quite often the FUNDS for this facility were NEVER allocated or "in hand".
Second, regarding comparison of budgets. I was told that we simply can't compare budgets between us and private schools or EVEN public institutions from other states. For example, ETSU has different guidelines and less restrictions on them with regards to how they use public funds coming from Knoxville. Additionally, schools like Furman and Wofford fund their athletics solely by endowments and donations. Since they've always been private, they've had over 100 years of "endowment" and "donor" mentality to keep things afloat and have tons of ways to be creative on how they move their OWN PRIVATE funds around. Again, NC Legislature has strict rules on how WCU can move money around. With regards to comparing ourselves to ASU and the recent $250MM worth of facility upgrades announced, this was simply NOT a measure of the right folks asking Raleigh for the money and them getting it. ASU designated the properties involved as "Millennial" campus projects and already secured up to 30 years worth of lease rights from PRIVATE companies and organizations to fund the new fieldhouse, training facilities, food courts, living spaces, offices, and so on. Very similar situation to the WCU Millennial campus across 107, EXCEPT, WCU has not had private organizations lining up to sign lease agreements. According to what I was TOLD, it has NOT been for the lack of trying on WCU's part. We've asked and asked and have tried to turn over every stone with regards to garnering the lease investment from the private sector but it has been slow going. This same approach will need to be done in order for WCU to even think about new press box, stadium improvements, new fieldhouse, etc. The land/property is already designated as part of the Millennial project at WCU, so at least that obstacle has been passed.
Third, regarding the "Lead the Way" campaign that WCU has touted to be approaching $60MM. Here is some clarity. This nearly $60MM is not some lump sum that is sitting in an account just waiting to be allocated and used. This sum of money counts any and all donations made to WCU since inception (March 2018). SO, this includes Catamount Club donations. The large chunk, one-time donations can't be used towards athletics as the donors had designated causes.
Fourth, as I was told, WCU AD and staff are pretty much in a holding pattern on any and all "big asks" until a new Chancellor is selected. It is what it is, their hands are tied because the interim Chancellor WILL NOT make any major commitments or decisions regarding athletics.
Fifth, WCU is in a battle to increase enrollment, thereby, increasing revenues. This was mandated by Raleigh and leadership. The good news is WCU has done quite well here. Also, it is a fallacy that WCU CAN'T and WON'T raise student activity fees because of the new NC promise law. WCU CAN raise the student activity fee and WILL DO SO in the coming semesters. They are allowed to raise the fees by a certain percentage each fiscal year ( I can't remember the % I was told, sorry). With that said, our AD has also renegotiated how much control the department has in using fees generated that were signed under the previous two athletic directors. Things are changing on that front. Additional funds are also being renegotiated to be obtained from the Chancellor discretionary budget. With regards to overall enrollment, WCU will have more ability to obtain capital improvement money from Raleigh with each new enrollment record that is broken. The rough goal is to increase by approximately 500 students per year to attain a medium term goal of 15,000 on Cullowhee campus by 2025 or so. I may be off by a year or two on the 15K enrollment goal, it's fairly soon though. With that said, new campus capital improvements have to take place to house, support, educate, and feed these students. As we grow, WCU WILL be adding new housing and learning facilities and bring existing facilities to "modern" standards.
In a nutshell, WCU has some pretty major obstacles. Good, bad, or indifferent, folks are working on it. The impression I got was WCU wants to expand and grow at a steady pace, has not needed athletics to spur the growth pace we want nor has it needed athletics to improve the overall quality of the student enrolled nor the education provided. Once WCU gets "its growth and expansion" house in order, then monies will then be reallocated to make major capital improvements to athletics facilities. We have an AD and staff that are faced with these realities and are pulling every lever they can to get the funds they need to provide all they can.
Now, what all I just said is not me opining about how I feel. So DON'T SHOOT the messenger. I'm just relaying, to the best of my ability, my recent conversations with those from WCU staff. I WILL NOT name names or give out the level of staff I spoke with because I respect their privacy and our relationship to be open and communicate with each other anytime I ask them to meet with me.
If any of you out there have specific questions you'd like to ask me on topics, issues, ideas that you brought up that I have forgot to address in this post, feel free to ask me and my memory may be jogged to offer you up an answer.
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Post by wcu72 on Oct 26, 2018 19:23:03 GMT -5
Just more of the reasons nothing can be done for athletics at WCU.
The past administrations have always come up with these "not now, maybe later" excuses to do nothing, it's been that way for 70+ years, and we see it will continue that way through 2025. The more things change in Cullowhee, the more they stay the same.
Hopefully in 2025 someone else can make the contact with their inside secret peoples for the latest "reasons" nothing can still be done about athletics to carry us into at least 2035.
Thanks mtncat1 for your efforts, but the excuses by the admin to not act, will always over come any ADs efforts to upgrade athletic funding. I see now that I will never live to see any extensive changes to the athletic budget or facilities upgrades.
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Post by mtncat1 on Oct 26, 2018 21:03:20 GMT -5
Yes, I fear that you will not live to see WCU athletics come to a point where we are considered consistently "successful". I tried to say that in a round about way in my post, but was trying to keep my comments limited to just "what I heard" as much as possible. My conclusion is this, I will just savor each win that we get on the court or on the field, knowing that they will be few and far between. WCU football will be like the marauding pirate of the SOCON. Limited in resources, devoid of a country that leads and supports them, and will occasionally get a victory over a superior foe with better resources, training, and skill. I will continue to support these "marauding pirates" because I love WCU, I love what the education has done for me, and I love the area and the BEST part of the mountains in which WCU resides. I will say this, however, it still hurts and is not fun to have to wear a WCU hat or shirt after a disappointing loss wondering if folks wearing other jerseys are looking at me thinking, "Man, why would that guy support THAT team?" But, I'm at the age now where I pretty much don't care what others are thinking about what team shirt I'm wearing. I guess I'm gonna be a Cat fan not matter what with my donations and attendance because I know there are a lot of folks that are giving their best under the circumstances, and in the end, I guess that is what deserves my support more than anything else. Paint me however you like but I've got nowhere else to go. Not gonna put all my eggs in the basket of another "adopted" team after this many years of supporting the Cats.
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Post by The Cats on Oct 27, 2018 13:01:46 GMT -5
We should take 1 week out of each month and fax the crap out of the White House - Attention : Chancellor and Board Members 828.227.7176 Example : Please invest in our football facilities. Pressbox, Indoor Practice Field, Pressure Wash East Side along with updating Restrooms should be Phase 1. *Plenty of Free Fax APPS on smartphones. And also FAX 828.227.7498 OK folks, here's the latest as I heard it straight from the horses mouth in my discussion I had this week that I mentioned I'd have in another post. I'll start with this: The conversation was not that uplifting. First, the good parts (and it's not that good). Randy has been able to renegotiate contracts signed under Bardo and Belcher with leading sponsors in order to have more funds given to the football program such as doubling the recruiting T&E budget to make that part of the budget on par with the rest of the conference. Additional monies have been moved around as well. The indoor practice facility is still on the radar and in the works. The only thing that has delayed the process is differences of view on WHERE it should be. Some in Admin don't want it in the parking lot by the field house and want it further out. They can't build it on the intramural field across the creek because it is flood plain and won't pass muster with new codes for where you build. As I was told, contrary to what has been said quite often the FUNDS for this facility were NEVER allocated or "in hand". Second, regarding comparison of budgets. I was told that we simply can't compare budgets between us and private schools or EVEN public institutions from other states. For example, ETSU has different guidelines and less restrictions on them with regards to how they use public funds coming from Knoxville. Additionally, schools like Furman and Wofford fund their athletics solely by endowments and donations. Since they've always been private, they've had over 100 years of "endowment" and "donor" mentality to keep things afloat and have tons of ways to be creative on how they move their OWN PRIVATE funds around. Again, NC Legislature has strict rules on how WCU can move money around. With regards to comparing ourselves to ASU and the recent $250MM worth of facility upgrades announced, this was simply NOT a measure of the right folks asking Raleigh for the money and them getting it. ASU designated the properties involved as "Millennial" campus projects and already secured up to 30 years worth of lease rights from PRIVATE companies and organizations to fund the new fieldhouse, training facilities, food courts, living spaces, offices, and so on. Very similar situation to the WCU Millennial campus across 107, EXCEPT, WCU has not had private organizations lining up to sign lease agreements. According to what I was TOLD, it has NOT been for the lack of trying on WCU's part. We've asked and asked and have tried to turn over every stone with regards to garnering the lease investment from the private sector but it has been slow going. This same approach will need to be done in order for WCU to even think about new press box, stadium improvements, new fieldhouse, etc. The land/property is already designated as part of the Millennial project at WCU, so at least that obstacle has been passed. Third, regarding the "Lead the Way" campaign that WCU has touted to be approaching $60MM. Here is some clarity. This nearly $60MM is not some lump sum that is sitting in an account just waiting to be allocated and used. This sum of money counts any and all donations made to WCU since inception (March 2018). SO, this includes Catamount Club donations. The large chunk, one-time donations can't be used towards athletics as the donors had designated causes. Fourth, as I was told, WCU AD and staff are pretty much in a holding pattern on any and all "big asks" until a new Chancellor is selected. It is what it is, their hands are tied because the interim Chancellor WILL NOT make any major commitments or decisions regarding athletics. Fifth, WCU is in a battle to increase enrollment, thereby, increasing revenues. This was mandated by Raleigh and leadership. The good news is WCU has done quite well here. Also, it is a fallacy that WCU CAN'T and WON'T raise student activity fees because of the new NC promise law. WCU CAN raise the student activity fee and WILL DO SO in the coming semesters. They are allowed to raise the fees by a certain percentage each fiscal year ( I can't remember the % I was told, sorry). With that said, our AD has also renegotiated how much control the department has in using fees generated that were signed under the previous two athletic directors. Things are changing on that front. Additional funds are also being renegotiated to be obtained from the Chancellor discretionary budget. With regards to overall enrollment, WCU will have more ability to obtain capital improvement money from Raleigh with each new enrollment record that is broken. The rough goal is to increase by approximately 500 students per year to attain a medium term goal of 15,000 on Cullowhee campus by 2025 or so. I may be off by a year or two on the 15K enrollment goal, it's fairly soon though. With that said, new campus capital improvements have to take place to house, support, educate, and feed these students. As we grow, WCU WILL be adding new housing and learning facilities and bring existing facilities to "modern" standards. In a nutshell, WCU has some pretty major obstacles. Good, bad, or indifferent, folks are working on it. The impression I got was WCU wants to expand and grow at a steady pace, has not needed athletics to spur the growth pace we want nor has it needed athletics to improve the overall quality of the student enrolled nor the education provided. Once WCU gets "its growth and expansion" house in order, then monies will then be reallocated to make major capital improvements to athletics facilities. We have an AD and staff that are faced with these realities and are pulling every lever they can to get the funds they need to provide all they can.
Now, what all I just said is not me opining about how I feel. So DON'T SHOOT the messenger. I'm just relaying, to the best of my ability, my recent conversations with those from WCU staff. I WILL NOT name names or give out the level of staff I spoke with because I respect their privacy and our relationship to be open and communicate with each other anytime I ask them to meet with me.
If any of you out there have specific questions you'd like to ask me on topics, issues, ideas that you brought up that I have forgot to address in this post, feel free to ask me and my memory may be jogged to offer you up an answer.
I thank that we should not accept their reasons and excuses as to why something can not be done now for athletics. Pressure should be applied at every level. Pressure should be applied to the Head Coach, the AD, the interim Chancellor, the new chancellor (when hired), the entire WCU board of trustees, the UNC president (current & future), and to the UNC Board of governors for better leadership in athletic funding for Western Carolina. Such pressure should be applied to all these folks at a level, that every time they turn around, the poor state of athletic funding at WCU is brought to their attention and until they do something about it, not just give us excuses why we can't do something right now. In other words, don't take NO for an answer.
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Post by The Cats on Oct 29, 2018 10:49:35 GMT -5
While the website did not give specific head coaches salaries, it did give averages for all HCs at each school, given the low budget at WCU, I'm surprised at where WCU's average end up:
Average Annual Institutional Salary per Head Coach (men):
9- VMI $67,726 8- Wofford $99,120 7- ETSU $109,828 6- Citadel $112,089 5- Samford $113,494 4- Mercer $123,263 3- Western $125,992 2- UTC $147.463 1- Furman $167,362
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Post by wcugrad95 on Oct 29, 2018 11:36:35 GMT -5
For 2017-208, Speir made $213,928, Larry Hunter made $197,925, and Moranda made $110,880. Those 3 average over $174k. That leaves Cross Country, Track & Field, and Golf (do we play any other men's sports). I would expect Posser is making less than Hunter did, but the other 2 guys probably went up (at least a nominal number).
So we are actually paying our head guys pretty well comparatively. And when you throw in the cost to attend, it costs more than 2 times more to go to places like Furman and Wofford (a lot more than 2x more), so the numbers might actually suggest our budget is in-line with the cost of attending our school relative to the other privates. If it costs $60k to pay for a scholarship at Furman, and it costs $20k to pay for an out-of-state scholarship at WCU (that is roughly what the all-in cost would be for me to send my daughter there), Furman's expenditures should be 3x what WCU's are for the scholarship component.
That doesn't excuse the glaring neglect to facilities, but as a business you need your expenditures be equal to or less than your revenues. Clearly we are not giving anything "extra" or above and beyond to athletics, but maybe we are to head coaches.
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Post by wcugrad95 on Oct 29, 2018 12:28:47 GMT -5
I did a little math. If both Furman and WCU fully-allocate 63 scholarships for football and I use the $60k at Furman and $20k at WCU, that costs Furman $3.78M and it costs WCU $1.26M. The expenditures on football were $6.676M for Furman (leaving them with a little under $3M for "other" costs) and $3.133M for WCU (leaving us with around $1.87M). So even with the costs of scholarships, the Paladins spent more than $1M more on football (recruiting, game day operations, etc. are some of the categories I saw).
So yes - we are behind Furman but when you throw in the cost of attendance we are not that far behind. Or am I reading the report and expenditures wrong?
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Post by The Cats on Oct 29, 2018 12:30:27 GMT -5
I did a little math. If both Furman and WCU fully-allocate 63 scholarships and I use the $60k at Furman and $20k at WCU, that costs Furman $3.78M and it costs WCU $1.26M. The expenditures on football were $6.676M for Furman (leaving them with a little under $3M for "other" costs) and $3.133M for WCU (leaving us with around $1.87M). So even with the costs of scholarships, the Paladins spent more than $1M more on football (recruiting, game day operations, etc. are some of the categories I saw). So yes - we are behind Furman but when you throw in the cost of attendance we are not that far behind. Or am I reading the report and expenditures wrong? I think that you are correctly reading the stats.
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Post by wcatradio75 on Nov 2, 2018 21:31:23 GMT -5
One other item mtncat probably learned from his discussion about how Western is funded is that of the "$60MM" raised by the Lead the Way campaign, a good percentage of that is pledged. That is, bequeathed in trusts or other promised gifts and won't hit the coffers until some date in the future.
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