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Post by catamountfanatic07 on Mar 11, 2024 23:18:10 GMT -5
Those statistics probably include coaching staff changes which, at WCU, has been off the chart in the past 20 years. But, our turnover rate in the athletics staff category is also unusually high. The reasons for the high turnover rate...there are many... which standout in my mind. One, a lot of non-coaches in the world of college athletics want to get into college athletics because of what they see on TV and think that with all the perceived glamour and money that is generated that there is a pot of gold awaiting them. Many soon find out that after starting out at the salary level of public school teachers and bankers, their salary advancement is much slower on our level than their fellow college grads in the business world. On our level, especially at state institutions, the administrators are always struggling to balance budgets because of required hirings, lack of sustained success on the playing venues, constant rising scholarship costs, higher salaries for coaches and the demands of facilities upgrades. Also, rarely is there an surge in revenue from ticket sales and fund raising, The billions that the networks payout never reaches our level. So, those frustrated entry level support staffers apply for open position slots at ACC and SEC schools which have seven multi-million dollar revenue football games annually and 50 million dollar check coming in each year from ESPN, ABC, CBS, etc. On-line betting is supposed to produce $300,000 to $500,000 this year and more later...which is only keep up with inflation, at best. As far as coaches, WCU...since the early 90s, has been a stopping off point for assistants till they can double their salary on the next level. Or it’s because of poor leadership…. Obviously if that was the reason WCU wouldn’t have the highest turnover in D1 Athletics. That would be every mid major or FCS school. Look At Chattanooga, they have at least five people who left WCU to go there. Obviously not jumping because their business degree friends make more money. There might be a reason Catamounts like Gorham Bradley don’t come around anymore… Look at our Alumni Office….they obviously didn't leave for more money. They just transferred out. At some point as people who care about WCU we have to start noticing this isn’t the “norm” anymore. As some/many know Gorham wanted to get out of athletics to be around his family more and kids as they grow up as well as some other things. For many of the same reasons that I am not in Cullowhee all the time anymore are many of the same reasons he is not in Cullowhee anymore often. We both have kids in sports around the same age and it is more important for us to be with our kids on Saturdays as they play and complete than it is to be in Cullowhee for gamedays. It took me a little while longer to figure that out but I absolutely love it now.
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Post by catamountfanatic07 on Mar 11, 2024 23:37:01 GMT -5
Those statistics probably include coaching staff changes which, at WCU, has been off the chart in the past 20 years. But, our turnover rate in the athletics staff category is also unusually high. The reasons for the high turnover rate...there are many... which standout in my mind. One, a lot of non-coaches in the world of college athletics want to get into college athletics because of what they see on TV and think that with all the perceived glamour and money that is generated that there is a pot of gold awaiting them. Many soon find out that after starting out at the salary level of public school teachers and bankers, their salary advancement is much slower on our level than their fellow college grads in the business world. On our level, especially at state institutions, the administrators are always struggling to balance budgets because of required hirings, lack of sustained success on the playing venues, constant rising scholarship costs, higher salaries for coaches and the demands of facilities upgrades. Also, rarely is there an surge in revenue from ticket sales and fund raising, The billions that the networks payout never reaches our level. So, those frustrated entry level support staffers apply for open position slots at ACC and SEC schools which have seven multi-million dollar revenue football games annually and 50 million dollar check coming in each year from ESPN, ABC, CBS, etc. On-line betting is supposed to produce $300,000 to $500,000 this year and more later...which is only keep up with inflation, at best. As far as coaches, WCU...since the early 90s, has been a stopping off point for assistants till they can double their salary on the next level. Or it’s because of poor leadership…. Obviously if that was the reason WCU wouldn’t have the highest turnover in D1 Athletics. That would be every mid major or FCS school. Look At Chattanooga, they have at least five people who left WCU to go there. Obviously not jumping because their business degree friends make more money. There might be a reason Catamounts like Gorham Bradley don’t come around anymore… Look at our Alumni Office….they obviously didn't leave for more money. They just transferred out. At some point as people who care about WCU we have to start noticing this isn’t the “norm” anymore. I assume you know that the state of TN gives money directly to athletics each year where as the state of NC cannot give universities money. Our NC legislature has held the smaller schools back for a very long time while the larger schools in the system have the large donations and foundations or the small to mid donations from many alumni. All of these TN schools have the money given to them they can outpace us forever, by millions of dollars most of the time, without having to get creative in raising money. This is why WCU will always be behind in funding.
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Post by FLCATAMOUNT on Mar 12, 2024 4:21:38 GMT -5
Or it’s because of poor leadership…. Obviously if that was the reason WCU wouldn’t have the highest turnover in D1 Athletics. That would be every mid major or FCS school. Look At Chattanooga, they have at least five people who left WCU to go there. Obviously not jumping because their business degree friends make more money. There might be a reason Catamounts like Gorham Bradley don’t come around anymore… Look at our Alumni Office….they obviously didn't leave for more money. They just transferred out. At some point as people who care about WCU we have to start noticing this isn’t the “norm” anymore. I assume you know that the state of TN gives money directly to athletics each year where as the state of NC cannot give universities money. Our NC legislature has held the smaller schools back for a very long time while the larger schools in the system have the large donations and foundations or the small to mid donations from many alumni. All of these TN schools have the money given to them they can outpace us forever, by millions of dollars most of the time, without having to get creative in raising money. This is why WCU will always be behind in funding. I know what you are saying is true, but some of our sister schools that used to be about our size seemed to have figured it out. App State in the 1980s was about our size and we competed well with them. Same thing with ECU in the 70s. I think because of poor leadership, we stayed the same and other schools grew and also grew their athletic programs exponentially compared to Western. I think that a lot of it does come down to leadership and priorities. What gets prioritized gets done. Unfortunately for the alumni at Western, athletics and especially football has never been a priority with our leadership. We can say, we don’t get money from the state for athletics, we don’t have enough alumni giving, we can’t issue bonds because we don’t want to go in debt for athletics, etc. but those are excuses because athletics is really not a priority at Western. Let’s not make excuses and lie to ourselves about the real reasons for our lack of success. The people in charge make things happen or they don’t. It’s called accountability. The leadership will never admit that they are the reason that we have stayed the same athletically for the past 40 years when others have grown. They will fall back on the same old tired excuses. That’s why other university fan bases laugh at our sports teams and call us the “Cantamounts”. It’s delusional to lie to yourself and make excuses…. It will never ever change at Western when it comes to athletics but we should be honest about why things are the way they are and stop trying to make excuses so that the leadership can rationalize the lack of athletic success.
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Post by 83wasagreatyr on Mar 12, 2024 5:25:54 GMT -5
Hypothetical question. If this deal to leave WCU for CC was agreed to weeks ago, what would have happened if we had beat Furman, Stamford, and won the title last night? What a mess that could have been?? Thoughts?
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Post by cbyland on Mar 12, 2024 6:43:13 GMT -5
If it was the NCAA or NIT, it might would have stayed until they were eliminated but if Coastal was demanding that he come now due to NIL etc and if his wife was demanding they get out of the mountains, he probably would have gone and we promote someone like Lightfoot as the Interim HC to keep continuity for the tournament. I am still hopeful with a 22-10 record (and we are a better team than last year) that if the CBI calls, we accept, there are way too many players that have made major contributions that are not coming back and I don't believe any of those players are going to be playing in the NBA so this is the year to definitely fork out the money and play in the CBI with someone like Lightfoot as their coach, if he does well and they go deep or win it, then he could essentially be auditioning/interviewing for the HC job. But if the players want to play, let them, if not, OK close the season, they played last year, so they absolutely should play this year for the players.
But it seems like Gray had been forthcoming with AD Gary who was expecting this or aware of this so I think they are not shellshocked and prepared better than when Prosser just abruptly left. Gray may have been communicating this to Gary and possibly his assistants before the news became truly public and maybe it was done in case they made any of the tournaments so hopefully they have a plan in place.
As for the next coach, in this day and age of College Basketball, we just need the right coach that can recruit and use the portal to their advantage, and success can continue. Basketball can be microwaved with portal players easier than football. Gray has made WCU a little bit more of an attractive job. Now if we are going to hire a young up and comer, then if they are successful (in WCU terms) this is something we must get used to on a regular basis. The key is to continue the success coach after coach
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Post by purplegold1 on Mar 12, 2024 7:32:41 GMT -5
Another question to ask in the staff department is why can't we keep our own alumni. The marketing guy I think is an alum but we've lost alumni to places like Newberry and Brevard. There's also some at Coastal if memory serves correctly. How come we can't keep them home?
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Post by wcatradio75 on Mar 12, 2024 9:29:30 GMT -5
Another question to ask in the staff department is why can't we keep our own alumni. The marketing guy I think is an alum but we've lost alumni to places like Newberry and Brevard. There's also some at Coastal if memory serves correctly. How come we can't keep them home? Sorry for being too direct, but I think this is a bogus question. The implication is that Western is a bad place to work and be. As was mentioned above, there are plenty of reasons why someone would leave Cullowhee. Look at your own workplace. How many folks leave because they are disillusioned or aren’t happy in their jobs? Then a year or two later what are they doing? Sometimes, they are extremely happy and God led them to the right place. Other times, the person never finds the right job for any number of reasons and is never happy.
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Post by wcatradio75 on Mar 12, 2024 9:33:52 GMT -5
Again – the sky is not falling. Western is in a much better place than we were four years ago. We are not perfect and we have certain faults and disadvantages. Some can be corrected and others not. We are close to having a major facilities upgrade. Our football basketball records are improving, and baseball will improve. And other sports are doing better than they have traditionally as well. I think there’s a lot to be optimistic about. But there’s always something that you can complain about as well.
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Post by purplegold1 on Mar 12, 2024 9:34:54 GMT -5
Another question to ask in the staff department is why can't we keep our own alumni. The marketing guy I think is an alum but we've lost alumni to places like Newberry and Brevard. There's also some at Coastal if memory serves correctly. How come we can't keep them home? Sorry for being too direct, but I think this is a bogus question. The implication is that Western is a bad place to work and be. As was mentioned above, there are plenty of reasons why someone would leave Cullowhee. Look at your own workplace. How many folks leave because they are disillusioned or aren’t happy in their jobs? Then a year or two later what are they doing? Sometimes, they are extremely happy and God led them to the right place. Other times, the person never finds the right job for any number of reasons and is never happy. Very fair point, it's not too direct at all and actually makes a lot of sense.
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Post by wcu1995gocats on Mar 12, 2024 10:08:27 GMT -5
Another question to ask in the staff department is why can't we keep our own alumni. The marketing guy I think is an alum but we've lost alumni to places like Newberry and Brevard. There's also some at Coastal if memory serves correctly. How come we can't keep them home? Sorry for being too direct, but I think this is a bogus question. The implication is that Western is a bad place to work and be. As was mentioned above, there are plenty of reasons why someone would leave Cullowhee. Look at your own workplace. How many folks leave because they are disillusioned or aren’t happy in their jobs? Then a year or two later what are they doing? Sometimes, they are extremely happy and God led them to the right place. Other times, the person never finds the right job for any number of reasons and is never happy. All fair points but that affects every environment. WCU is cited at 73% turnover…that’s not normal. Even in a rural community. We have the highest turnover in D1 Athletics. Think about that… And we are not financially better off than 4 years ago. Whether you liked our former AD or not we had a surplus in the bank. Today we are penny pinching and looking at the reality that certain programs might not be sustainable. I love our recent coaching hires but you can look at our deal with Nike and realize we’re living a life we cannot afford. www.sportico.com/leagues/college-sports/2022/why-employees-are-leaving-college-athletics-1234687903/amp/
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