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Post by wcuecu2010 on Dec 9, 2018 0:19:15 GMT -5
Apparently, Rome wasn't built in 7 years either. You’re right, it took about 276 years to build Rome It won't be that long but I swear the state of the program it was after Speir took over and after the severe damage that former AD's Compher, Smith and former HC Wagner done to this program (that was already not in the greatest shape), I say Speir has done a lot of good things. It may take Speir 10 years to get us in the playoffs, but I believe when we reach the first playoff under Speir it will continue to be consistent at least to the point to what Wofford has been doing in the last 10-15 years. May not be every year but it will be almost every year. In today's culture, everybody is win, win, win now, and only give coaches 2-3 years to get it done. While 2-3 years can certainly determine a coach is "NEVER" going to get it done or the program is worse off than the new coach inherited, I miss the old days where coaches were give quite a long time to fix a program. Think if former coach Frank Beamer at Virginia Tech, if he had been hired at VT in today's culture he would have never been the coach he became. Speir may not have been a quick fix but I think his handling of the program will build the program to be a consistent winner for his remaining tenure and future coaches. There are 2 types of "successful" FCS coaches, the short term fixer or the long term fixer. The short term fixer, such as Mike Houston who can come in and fix a program quick like he did with the Citadel and then bolt for a bigger program, and the Citadel is back to their mediocre ways. Or a long-term fixer like what Jerry Moore was to App State and the program has sustained success who is content being just an FCS coach. I see Speir a long-term fixer. And to be honest, since we have been Division 1 (FCS, 1AA or whatever), even Bob Waters did not have a lot of consistent success. He got us to the National Championship game and had other good seasons but only made the playoffs once (as a Division 1 school). Although, to give Waters credit, he did build the program brick by brick too,from NAIA and had success, to Division II to Division I and served as the AD and football coach from 71-86 while and in later years while battling ALS. But do you think in today's time, leaders would have even been as patient with Waters? I am pretty sure the fanbase would not be as tolerate and if he was coach today, many on this message board would be calling for his firing. As Waters was football coach when WCU made the Div 1 transition here was his record from 1977-1988. 1977 6-4-1 1978 6-5 1979 6-5 1980 3-7-1 1981 4-7 1982 6-5 1983 11-3-1 (Playoffs-Nat'l Championship runner-up) 1984 8-3 (probably in the current FCS playoff system, would likely have been in playoffs) 1985 4-6-1 1986 6-5 1987 4-7 1988 2-9 *********** Div 1 66-66-4 (7 winning seasons/5 losing seasons, 1 great playoff run, likely in 2018 time would have been to 2) Record (So yes, record wise the best football coach we have had in the Div 1 era). So Speir out of 7 years (3 winning seasons, 4 losing seasons, to Speir's credit the first 2 in serious rebuild with Wagner's recruits). Speir Record 2012 1-10 2013 2-10 2014 7-5 2015 7-4 2016 2-9 2017 7-5 2018 3-9 ************* Record 29-52 (but take the first 2 seasons out that was mostly a result of a culture of losing and Wagner inability and the record looks much better at (26-32). Fear the Speir !!!!!
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Post by FLCATAMOUNT on Dec 9, 2018 12:09:14 GMT -5
You’re right, it took about 276 years to build Rome It won't be that long but I swear the state of the program it was after Speir took over and after the severe damage that former AD's Compher, Smith and former HC Wagner done to this program (that was already not in the greatest shape), I say Speir has done a lot of good things. It may take Speir 10 years to get us in the playoffs, but I believe when we reach the first playoff under Speir it will continue to be consistent at least to the point to what Wofford has been doing in the last 10-15 years. May not be every year but it will be almost every year. In today's culture, everybody is win, win, win now, and only give coaches 2-3 years to get it done. While 2-3 years can certainly determine a coach is "NEVER" going to get it done or the program is worse off than the new coach inherited, I miss the old days where coaches were give quite a long time to fix a program. Think if former coach Frank Beamer at Virginia Tech, if he had been hired at VT in today's culture he would have never been the coach he became. Speir may not have been a quick fix but I think his handling of the program will build the program to be a consistent winner for his remaining tenure and future coaches. There are 2 types of "successful" FCS coaches, the short term fixer or the long term fixer. The short term fixer, such as Mike Houston who can come in and fix a program quick like he did with the Citadel and then bolt for a bigger program, and the Citadel is back to their mediocre ways. Or a long-term fixer like what Jerry Moore was to App State and the program has sustained success who is content being just an FCS coach. I see Speir a long-term fixer. And to be honest, since we have been Division 1 (FCS, 1AA or whatever), even Bob Waters did not have a lot of consistent success. He got us to the National Championship game and had other good seasons but only made the playoffs once (as a Division 1 school). Although, to give Waters credit, he did build the program brick by brick too,from NAIA and had success, to Division II to Division I and served as the AD and football coach from 71-86 while and in later years while battling ALS. But do you think in today's time, leaders would have even been as patient with Waters? I am pretty sure the fanbase would not be as tolerate and if he was coach today, many on this message board would be calling for his firing. As Waters was football coach when WCU made the Div 1 transition here was his record from 1977-1988. 1977 6-4-1 1978 6-5 1979 6-5 1980 3-7-1 1981 4-7 1982 6-5 1983 11-3-1 (Playoffs-Nat'l Championship runner-up) 1984 8-3 (probably in the current FCS playoff system, would likely have been in playoffs) 1985 4-6-1 1986 6-5 1987 4-7 1988 2-9 *********** Div 1 66-66-4 (7 winning seasons/5 losing seasons, 1 great playoff run, likely in 2018 time would have been to 2) Record (So yes, record wise the best football coach we have had in the Div 1 era). So Speir out of 7 years (3 winning seasons, 4 losing seasons, to Speir's credit the first 2 in serious rebuild with Wagner's recruits). Speir Record 2012 1-10 2013 2-10 2014 7-5 2015 7-4 2016 2-9 2017 7-5 2018 3-9 ************* Record 29-52 (but take the first 2 seasons out that was mostly a result of a culture of losing and Wagner inability and the record looks much better at (26-32). Fear the Speir !!!!! Good analysis and I am not in the camp that we must fire coach Speir. I in fact have been a big supporter of his. I am not even surprised or disappointed that he probably had a conversation with Appy about their coaching vacancy. I do not like the weak response to the question that there were inaccurate reports in the media. Those are weasel words that one uses when they do not want to incriminate themselves. They sound like words that Randy and Mark sat down and came up with. If he interviewed for the job, he should own it. I would respect that much more. I think this. Randy probably has a few key people in the Catamount Nation that he listens to and those folks are probably long term donors that have given a bunch of money over the years. Also, Randy listens to the student athletes or in this case the Football players. No matter what the record next year, Randy will talk to these 2 groups and decide what to do. The only other wildcard is that we will have a new Chancellor that will not have any history with Mark or Randy and if he comes into a situation where he does not know the history and sees a losing team, he might clean house depending on what his knowledge and experience of the situation is. The absolute best we could hope for and frankly what we should expect is a Chancellor that will do everything that can legally be done to increase funding to Football.
On that note, I think we should hire the Chancellor from Youngstown State who used to be The Ohio States Football Coach. That will not happen but we need a guy as Chancellor that is obsessed with Football and Alumni satisfaction. Frankly like App has. They have passed us athletically and academically because of our weak leadership at Chancellor and BOT over the years. That is what we need and those are the facts but come back to Western's campus in 5 years or 10 years and the facilities will look exactly the same with no new press box, no indoor practice facility and no improvements to football facilities at all because the disdain for football and athletics is ingrained in the Chancellor position and the BOT at Western. I said 10 years ago, come back in 5 years and nothing will have changed, and I said it again 5 years ago and nothing has changed today. I would bet anybody on this board that in 5 years we will not have a new press box or indoor practice facility or anything regarding athletics. Any takers? That's what I thought.
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Post by jim64 on Dec 9, 2018 12:15:16 GMT -5
Sounds contrived. Just saying. I will see if Football Scoop retracts the story. If not, it is true and the cover up is happening. Donors and Recruits. Fair enough. even if he had a conversation with App they don’t want him back. Many were glad to see him leave when he did.[/quote From the people I talk to in Boone, Coach Speir was well thought of by the players & the fans. Glenn was another situation. Coach Speir is a very good person & a pure salesman. Would be a great front man in a PR Firm. I just think he came to Cullowhee without the normal prerequisites to be hired as a HC. Based on his background, a normal progression for him would have been to hire him as a DC. I still think he would be happier in Boone than he is in Cullowhee. WCU has a broken Athletic Program & nothing is in place to make the necessary changes to correct the cycle of failure that has existed for over 40 years. To make things worse is the total degree of Athletic Apathy that permeates throughout the Student Body at WCU. With the existing enrollment, the students could fill up most of the east side seats for Football and most of the seats for Basketball. The attendance numbers for Football is enhanced dramatically by the WCU Alumni & not by the Students. A sad situation for all concerned.
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Post by FLCATAMOUNT on Dec 9, 2018 13:51:34 GMT -5
Fair enough. even if he had a conversation with App they don’t want him back. Many were glad to see him leave when he did.[/quote From the people I talk to in Boone, Coach Speir was well thought of by the players & the fans. Glenn was another situation. Coach Speir is a very good person & a pure salesman. Would be a great front man in a PR Firm. I just think he came to Cullowhee without the normal prerequisites to be hired as a HC. Based on his background, a normal progression for him would have been to hire him as a DC. I still think he would be happier in Boone than he is in Cullowhee. WCU has a broken Athletic Program & nothing is in place to make the necessary changes to correct the cycle of failure that has existed for over 40 years. To make things worse is the total degree of Athletic Apathy that permeates throughout the Student Body at WCU. With the existing enrollment, the students could fill up most of the east side seats for Football and most of the seats for Basketball. The attendance numbers for Football is enhanced dramatically by the WCU Alumni & not by the Students. A sad situation for all concerned. Just win. Winning changes everything, but as you said, the administration and BOT have set athletics up to fail by not doing everything possible to upgrade facilities, pay coaches and fund the program appropriately for a D1 athletic department. Getting rid of Coach Speir is not the answer. He would be fine if he had the appropriate resources.
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Post by bonsaiburke on Dec 9, 2018 14:41:02 GMT -5
You’re right, it took about 276 years to build Rome Bottom line, Coach Speir did not deny that he talked to App about the job or at least had a discussion. He said that there were some inaccurate reports. If he did not interview, I would have expected him to say, I did NOT interview for the position but that is not what he said. Inaccurate reports could mean anything but who cares. This just means that he needs to win next year for sure. Randy will fire him if he does not win more than he loses next year and that is a 100% accurate prediction. It's amazing what people hear when they want to hear it Report: "Speir interviews for App State opening" Speir: "Inaccurate coaching position reports have surfaced today" Fans: "He didn't deny these reports good enough" I mean you can't make this stuff up...
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Post by The Cats on Dec 9, 2018 15:33:28 GMT -5
Bottom line, Coach Speir did not deny that he talked to App about the job or at least had a discussion. He said that there were some inaccurate reports. If he did not interview, I would have expected him to say, I did NOT interview for the position but that is not what he said. Inaccurate reports could mean anything but who cares. This just means that he needs to win next year for sure. Randy will fire him if he does not win more than he loses next year and that is a 100% accurate prediction. It's amazing what people hear when they want to hear it Report: "Speir interviews for App State opening" Speir: "Inaccurate coaching position reports have surfaced today" Fans: "He didn't deny these reports good enough" I mean you can't make this stuff up... I've got to go with flcat on this one. What was put out in that tweet was not a denial of having interviewed, just saying "inaccurate coaching position reports" means nothing. Maybe he interviewed for an assistant coaching position - that tweet, as worded, would cover that possibility. If he was going to deny having interviewed at ASU, why not state the tweet clearly - so nothing could be read into his words. He could have simply said, "I did not interview for the HC position at ASU" - no ambiguity in that statement. I don't think anyone is upset that he might have actually interviewed, he'd be crazy not to have if they would interview him, moving to an FBS school, probably triple (or better) his salary, move to a program with a winning tradition as opposed to remaining with a school with a losing tradition (one that in 7 years he's not been able to turn around). I think he has every reason to leave. The people are upset because the way he played up being in Cullowhee, insinuating that the wanted to finish his career in Cullowhee, then jumping at the first opportunity to go back to Boone (if he did in fact interview, which I have no way of knowing). But the reports are still out there that he did interview. and you're right, you can't make this stuff up.......
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Post by wcugrad95 on Dec 9, 2018 17:19:15 GMT -5
Lots of interesting points in all of this, and most of them are very valid. I have no idea if he interviewed for some position or not, and as others have said I would not blame him if he did. A coordinator position even at a Group of 5 school probably pays more than what WCU pays our head coach, and isn't his son going to be a Senior this coming season? For the record, the all-in pay for Satterfield according to the USA Today article that lists coaches total salary had him at $712,500 last year.
What Jim posted should be looked at. I agree that the current state of financial support could also play into a coach (Head coach down through position coach) looking at other opportunities. And there lies the rub. Lots of talk now for the past month or two about changes that are needed, but just exactly who do you guys think we would get for coordinator roles or as our head coach? If we are lucky, we catch a guy on the rise like Mike Houston was and we lose him in 1 or 2 seasons. Or we get a "seasoned" guy who is at the end of his career and just wants to cash some checks. A Geoff Collins or Matt Rhule (or even Lonnie Galloway) isn't coming our way anytime soon (and not for $100k as a coordinator or $215k as the head man to go along with the lowest athletic budget in the SoCon).
I remember actual comments (back before message boards were popular) about how we might have been OK if we would have stuck it out with coaches like Hodgin or Bleil for the long-term. I see Speir very much like I saw Hodgin who was the coach while I was there - eerily similar records, talented teams, very close to the playoffs a couple of times, etc. I totally get the "7 years is enough" crowd, but I also get the "we need to stick with somebody rather than start over every 4 or 5 years" crowd as well.
So my question for the "get rid of Speir" argument is who do you replace him with? Since it is the Christmas season, create your wish list. But try to be realistic (a guy like Cronic who was the FU offensive coordinator and is now the LR coach is a realistic option - Paul Johnson or any of the above guys I mentioned are not).
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Post by haywoodcat on Dec 9, 2018 18:20:01 GMT -5
We focus on auto correct App focuses on winning, go figure.
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Post by jim64 on Dec 9, 2018 19:48:54 GMT -5
Lots of interesting points in all of this, and most of them are very valid. I have no idea if he interviewed for some position or not, and as others have said I would not blame him if he did. A coordinator position even at a Group of 5 school probably pays more than what WCU pays our head coach, and isn't his son going to be a Senior this coming season? For the record, the all-in pay for Satterfield according to the USA Today article that lists coaches total salary had him at $712,500 last year. What Jim posted should be looked at. I agree that the current state of financial support could also play into a coach (Head coach down through position coach) looking at other opportunities. And there lies the rub. Lots of talk now for the past month or two about changes that are needed, but just exactly who do you guys think we would get for coordinator roles or as our head coach? If we are lucky, we catch a guy on the rise like Mike Houston was and we lose him in 1 or 2 seasons. Or we get a "seasoned" guy who is at the end of his career and just wants to cash some checks. A Geoff Collins or Matt Rhule (or even Lonnie Galloway) isn't coming our way anytime soon (and not for $100k as a coordinator or $215k as the head man to go along with the lowest athletic budget in the SoCon). I remember actual comments (back before message boards were popular) about how we might have been OK if we would have stuck it out with coaches like Hodgin or Bleil for the long-term. I see Speir very much like I saw Hodgin who was the coach while I was there - eerily similar records, talented teams, very close to the playoffs a couple of times, etc. I totally get the "7 years is enough" crowd, but I also get the "we need to stick with somebody rather than start over every 4 or 5 years" crowd as well. So my question for the "get rid of Speir" argument is who do you replace him with? Since it is the Christmas season, create your wish list. But try to be realistic (a guy like Cronic who was the FU offensive coordinator and is now the LR coach is a realistic option - Paul Johnson or any of the above guys I mentioned are not). Keep in mind that ETSU got Randy Sanders for around 225,000 & he has a really good resume. Spent time at UT, Kentucky, & Florida State. In one year they go from a bottom tier team to tie for the SoCon Championship.
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Post by catamountalum04 on Dec 9, 2018 20:31:41 GMT -5
His son was a Sr. this year so he would be gone next year
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