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Post by mjecat1971 on Mar 2, 2018 21:45:03 GMT -5
OoooooK. I think I, and maybe some others on the board, have just been called a “simpleton”. “Simpleton - A person who is felt to be deficient in judgment, good sense, or intelligence; a fool”. The Free Dictionary. Similar meaning in Merriam- Webster. I don’t call fellow catamount supporters names. I do call Randy Eaton an idiot – my opinion and one I totally believe in. I have in the past called Crap State posters on the other board many, many names when they skulked on the other board and posted the most vile things about WCU. But not fellow catamount supporters. May happen in the future – but shouldn’t. Would it take someone like a “simpleton” to resort to name calling.
Actually I will use the simpleton name to explain my position to some parts of your post.
“You and others have repeatedly questioned the WBB program – specifically its head coach – based upon their record.” That is absolutely incorrect. The post you responded to is the first post I have made expressing an unfavorable opinion about the women’s basketball coach. As a matter of fact the first line in that post you responded to refers to the the other post I made on this thread that was not unfavorable. In that earlier post in this thread I actually offered an argument that she may be due more time since this year was only her second year after inheriting a horribly down program. I was totally wrong – often am – as this actually was her third year. My comments in the post you responded to reflect an unfavorable view now, based on her performance after three years. By the way I have no problem if some posters do fit your characterization and have repeatedly questioned the WBB program. Would it take someone like a “simpleton” to misstate or make incorrect statements about what another poster has said on this board.
“A society permits the expression of an opinion. But one is only entitled to that opinion if they can defend it.” Sounds so intellectually impressive. I cringe to even hear the argument that one is only entitled – don’t get me started on entitlement - to an opinion if it can be supported by facts. Why do we have debates - only one side or the other can have the correct facts? So where are the facts that you know better because you have an inside perspective. Does an inside perspective mean you are the absolute and all knowing fact person. Frankly, the opinion from an inside perspective is, I think, very good if it is not clouded by emotion. Would a simpleton be likely to think like this and determine who is entitled because their facts are the only and correct facts and thereby totally assert the opinion they do not like has no merit regardless of the arguments made, or not made.
“Believe me, if the record is the same in two more years, it will be time for an extension that shouldn’t come.” Not exactly sure what you mean but I have the opinion there is no reason to believe a change will be made in two more years. So I guess I must have facts to support this opinion. Fact – it was not been done by Eaton either with Larry Hunter whose contract was renewed after nine years with a losing record nor with Karen Middleton who was retained for six horrible losing record seasons. I do not believe she had an initial six year contract but prove me wrong. Wait I guess Middleton was not a fact – without going back I can’t say for 100% fact she did not have an initial six year contract.
I mentioned in my post the coach has had three years of recruiting her players. Anyone who is a JR, RS SO, or FR should have been recruited by her. There are eight of those players on this roster. The coach has had the opportunity to recruit her players and move them ahead of other people who were seniors this, and certainly at her discretion last year, and even to play her freshmen from her first, albeit possibly, limited recruiting class . Not unusual for a new coach to do this.
The one thing I whole-heartedly agree with you is the program is not supported by the university. That is a fact of life with many of the non-revenue sports. I just think it is worse under Eaton and the administration and has been for yeas. Yea that is pure opinion unsupported by facts other than lack of success of programs.
You indicated you were a parent in one of your posts. I, and probably a number of other posters, may have suspected what you have confirmed. It may surprise you but I appreciate your daughter’s involvement and commitment with WCU as a basketball player and wish her the most success.
Lastly, it is not up to me to welcome you to the board but I do. Just remember when you call people on this board an insulting name my opinion is it is not justified by the fact you have a child athlete at WCU. Would normally not respond in this much detail but we should be able to fiercely disagree and even disagree about what the "facts" really are without getting into name calling.
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Post by Stryker on Mar 3, 2018 0:51:44 GMT -5
Alright, i’ll eat the Simpleton thing. That was rude and uncalled for. Apologies, please accept them.
Let me take another stab at this, and some of it will be repeated:
When McCormick took over, five players were freshmen/rising sophs, and three more were already signed. That’s eight players not hers. Only 1/8 even had another D1 offer. An institution can’t pull/not renew scholarships for skill or competitive reasons. In MBB, tell a kid they won’t play, and they’ll leave. Not so in WBB. So McCormick was stuck with them. And because of their youth, she’s been stuck with them for awhile. Plus, McCormick is a total 180 from Karen (My daughter played for her.), and that was needed. But what it meant was that these 8 were resistant to playing for a HC who was not what they wanted. But again, why leave? These were the kind who were contact to stay and steal $$$. Especially that group of five (now 4, one did eventually choose to leave.)
I should clarify: it’s not my perspective. It’s another’s but shared with me. And now I share it with you.
And this was supposed to be the year some progress was made. Wouldn’t have been much because of the seniors, but some. And then the floor fell out in December or January (I forget which) when four players including two starters were suspended. And from the rumors I heard, it was necessary. And the courage it took a head coach and staff to make the call to suspend two starting guards this year...I applaud that.
So the program was ina BAD state at the end of Middleton’s time. Daron didn’t hire her, gave her time for him to eval program, and chose to make switch. And because of the classes I described above, he had a choice to make: change now and bear with new coach for awhile, or let things continue.
If you want to take issue with McCormick’s recruiting, look at sophomores (no freshmen on current roster) and transfers in. Everything else before that was Karen’s. And maybe she should’ve signed 1-2 others.
I don’t know Eaton. Never met hi or spoken to him. As a parent, I always figured it wasn’t my place. Or it never became my place. My daughter wasn’t treated wrongfully. Just questionable leadership of program and coaching decisions at times. I understood change when he made it, and I could tell then it would be awhile because McCormick is so different from Karen. Kids already in program never have fully accepted McCormick. So I’m not ready yet to say this talented but first-time head coach “can’t” do anything.
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Post by FLCATAMOUNT on Mar 3, 2018 8:46:32 GMT -5
Alright, i’ll eat the Simpleton thing. That was rude and uncalled for. Apologies, please accept them. Let me take another stab at this, and some of it will be repeated: When McCormick took over, five players were freshmen/rising sophs, and three more were already signed. That’s eight players not hers. Only 1/8 even had another D1 offer. An institution can’t pull/not renew scholarships for skill or competitive reasons. In MBB, tell a kid they won’t play, and they’ll leave. Not so in WBB. So McCormick was stuck with them. And because of their youth, she’s been stuck with them for awhile. Plus, McCormick is a total 180 from Karen (My daughter played for her.), and that was needed. But what it meant was that these 8 were resistant to playing for a HC who was not what they wanted. But again, why leave? These were the kind who were contact to stay and steal $$$. Especially that group of five (now 4, one did eventually choose to leave.) I should clarify: it’s not my perspective. It’s another’s but shared with me. And now I share it with you. And this was supposed to be the year some progress was made. Wouldn’t have been much because of the seniors, but some. And then the floor fell out in December or January (I forget which) when four players including two starters were suspended. And from the rumors I heard, it was necessary. And the courage it took a head coach and staff to make the call to suspend two starting guards this year...I applaud that. So the program was ina BAD state at the end of Middleton’s time. Daron didn’t hire her, gave her time for him to eval program, and chose to make switch. And because of the classes I described above, he had a choice to make: change now and bear with new coach for awhile, or let things continue. If you want to take issue with McCormick’s recruiting, look at sophomores (no freshmen on current roster) and transfers in. Everything else before that was Karen’s. And maybe she should’ve signed 1-2 others. I don’t know Eaton. Never met hi or spoken to him. As a parent, I always figured it wasn’t my place. Or it never became my place. My daughter wasn’t treated wrongfully. Just questionable leadership of program and coaching decisions at times. I understood change when he made it, and I could tell then it would be awhile because McCormick is so different from Karen. Kids already in program never have fully accepted McCormick. So I’m not ready yet to say this talented but first-time head coach “can’t” do anything. Bottom line, we will have to see how her team does next year and probably the year after. Next year is year 4 and I for one would expect marked improvement in year 4 and 5 and expectation would be a top half of the conference finish in one or both of the remaining years on coaches contract. If not, she must go and everyone including Eaton has to know that. It takes a special person to be a head coach at Western because of lack of support from the administration. Our coaches have to do more with less because athletics has and is not going to be a priority with any Western Carolina administration (please see last 40 years for reference). Not funding athletics appropriately is a requirement for the job and anyone applying for the Chancellor position who expresses those desires will be promptly eliminated from the search committee's list of potential candidates. Western is still stuck in 1968 when it was a small mountain college and not part of the NC university system and will always be held back in athletics by a belief that athletics is a detractor from our mission. This will ensure that we will never truly be a robust Regional University with strong academics and athletics. (please see last 40 years for reference). My point is this. Coaching and AD hires are not our root problem. The root cause is purely financial and other priorities being placed in from of athletics. Not that it is inherently wrong to put athletics last and fund other pet projects that the academics always talk about, but it is a reality and there is no history or argument that disputes this. People will say that tough decisions have to be made. I agree with that, but if the deciders already have a bias against athletics and priorities lie elsewhere, athletics will always be shortchanged. (please see last 40 years for reference). Anyone out there, please don't respond with tough decisions have to be made. We all get that, but athletics does not have a chance at Western to get it's fair slice of the pie because the decision makers are pre-programmed to never prioritize needed athletic funding over anything else at the university. At Western, athletics will always suck hind teet as we say in the mountains. (please see last 40 years for reference). GO CATS!!! (Just the facts, please)
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Post by wcatradio75 on Mar 3, 2018 9:14:12 GMT -5
FL: Gosh - we get the message. The thing is, Stryker is also right - with more inside knowledge than any of us. If you think you're frustrated, imagine being a parent or a student athlete with dreams of a SoCon (or higher) championship. They are not coming to Cullowhee thinking they will have a losing 4 years.
We are all excited about the football program and the progress made in the past seven years. (Remember Speir's first two frustrating years trying to change a losing culture?) I truly think we will be in the top half of the conference fighting for a title (and getting closer) over the next few years. That spells good fortune for the entire program at Western. We will likely see changes in the men's basketball program - if not as soon as this afternoon (if we lose), next year at this time.
Other sports continue to improve (although not fast enough), but we are certainly in a different spot than we were 10 years ago - and I don't care what you say about the administration, Dr. Belcher helped A LOT! Will WCU ever see $10MM come from the general fund directly to athletics? I doubt it, but the improvement in the football program alone should say tons about where the Cats have come from in the past 8 years. (And a special thank you to Gorham Bradley for his contributions during his tenure - not only as CC Director but to the golf program as well.)
I am not willing to accept where we are with my aspirations, but I do think that drip by slow, awful drip, we are better. Let's hope that the next Chancellor will understand how and why colleges grow in the south. And not just hope - re-look at the list of members of the selection committee and reach out to them.
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Post by FLCATAMOUNT on Mar 3, 2018 15:56:44 GMT -5
I am not too far off from where you are. I am frustrated with the level of support in the past and I will say that although there was not allot more money from the "general fund" for athletics, Belcher at least was enthusiastic and was an obvious supporter of athletics from a fan point of view. We are all Catamounts and I love all Catamounts whether they agree with me or not. Let's just beat Furman today because we owe them big time for 2 ugly loses.
GO CATS!!!
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Post by Stryker on Mar 3, 2018 16:22:28 GMT -5
FL, I trust what you’re saying about shortfalls financial. If that be the case, why does Eaton take such a hit on this board? Seems like his hands are tied.
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Post by mjecat1971 on Mar 3, 2018 16:58:55 GMT -5
Thanks. I believe the posters on this board do agree about one thing - their support of WCU.
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Post by A Disappointed Fan on Mar 3, 2018 18:24:27 GMT -5
An institution can’t pull/not renew scholarships for skill or competitive reasons........ And because of their youth, she’s been stuck with them for awhile......But what it meant was that these 8 were resistant to playing for a HC who was not what they wanted. But again, why leave? These were the kind who were contact to stay and steal $$$. Especially that group of five (now 4, one did eventually choose to leave.) I'm going to call BS on those statements. Under current NCAA rules, the fact is an athletic scholarship is not a four-year educational guarantee. What most college sports fans and not enough college recruits don't realize is that a university can yank that scholarship after one, two, or three years without cause. Period. So, every player that is on that dysfunctional team is there because the HC made a conscious decision they remain on scholarship, or she didn't have the guts to pull the plug and pull their scholarship(s). That is the fact of it.
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Post by FLCATAMOUNT on Mar 3, 2018 18:28:16 GMT -5
FL, I trust what you’re saying about shortfalls financial. If that be the case, why does Eaton take such a hit on this board? Seems like his hands are tied. I don't know much about Eaton. I do know that he is in charge of hiring and firing and contracts and from what has been reported, he is the person that set the incentives for Coach Hunter for his last 2 year contract extension. Those incentives obviously did not include wins and losses and to me that should be the number one criteria at any college for any team. If that is true, he failed miserably on the criteria for that contract extension. Coach Hunter's recruiting has been going down hill for the past several years. This past recruiting season, he seems to have brought in some pretty good players that are above what he has brought in the past several years. Also, Hunter is the highest paid coach at Western and he probably does not deserve that. That brings me to another fact. At Appalachian State, the highest paid person on campus is the head football coach. This is the right model for all southern universities who want to be known as progressive and focused on being known for academics and athletics. Once we get to that model at Western, we will know we have arrived. The Chancellor should NOT be the highest paid person on campus. This means that the university's priorities are wrong. Same thing at ECU. Their Football Coach is the highest paid employee. That is because they know how important it is to have a good football program in the south. Academics never admit the truth. They are too caught up in their academic world. Someday before I die, I hope that Western comes to it's senses and make athletics a priority. Look at every other school in the south that has a better reputation than we do and you will see this model. Hard to argue with facts. GO CATS!!!
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Post by FLCATAMOUNT on Mar 3, 2018 18:40:42 GMT -5
An institution can’t pull/not renew scholarships for skill or competitive reasons........ And because of their youth, she’s been stuck with them for awhile......But what it meant was that these 8 were resistant to playing for a HC who was not what they wanted. But again, why leave? These were the kind who were contact to stay and steal $$$. Especially that group of five (now 4, one did eventually choose to leave.) I'm going to call BS on those statements. Under current NCAA rules, the fact is an athletic scholarship is not a four-year educational guarantee. What most college sports fans and not enough college recruits don't realize is that a university can yank that scholarship after one, two, or three years without cause. Period. So, every player that is on that dysfunctional team is there because the HC made a conscious decision they remain on scholarship, or she didn't have the guts to pull the plug and pull their scholarship(s). That is the fact of it. This is cut and pasted from the NCAA.org frequently asked questions section: "Can a coach cancel a student-athlete’s scholarship? Depending on various circumstances, a school can choose not to renew or cancel a student-athlete’s scholarship*. The school has the choice to reduce or cancel the scholarship at the end of the period of the award. The school could also cancel the scholarship during the period of the award under the following circumstances: Student-athlete becomes ineligible Student-athlete commits fraud Misconduct Quits the team for personal reasons *Note that scholarships outside of the athletics department may be handled differently by the institution."Since the period of award is 1 year for most scholarships then after each year a school can reduce or cancel a student/athletes scholarship for no reason and without cause. I also read that a scholarship cannot be canceled in the middle of a school year. As you can see above, there are other reasons that a scholarship can be canceled at anytime during the year for one of the listed causes. GO CATS!!!
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