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Post by wcugrad95 on Oct 28, 2018 12:03:29 GMT -5
I actually think our current coaches are as good a staff as we have had since a handful of years under Hodgin. But before you crucify me, take a second to really think about what that is actually saying??? Hodgin had a couple of 6 and 7 win seasons and seemed to be heading in the right direction, but finished his 7 years at 31-45. Through 6 seasons and 8 games, I think Speir is currently 29-48 - so very Hodgin-like (and remember Speir was on Hodgin's staff). Of course that is a little better than most staffs we have had since Coach Waters somehow figured out how to have a winning record and even compete with the "big boys" back in the 70s and early 80s.
We all are going to jump all over the bad, and there is plenty to complain about. Three 7-win seasons puts Speir in relatively rare-air for WCU coaches, and his first couple of years were AWFUL as a direct result of what he inherited. But it just seems hard to think we can get much better than we have been. So I think it has been proven he is a heckuva nice guy, very good representative for the school, has a history as a good assistant coach and recruiter before WCU, but he is only going to be as good as our talent and resources allow him (or whoever our coach is) to be.
But... the budgets don't tackle, or make adjustments, or recruit defensive players, or change schemes to match what you have on your roster. Those are coaching decisions and adjustments that we simply have not made this year. Coach Speir I believe is under contract until 2020 (somebody can check and correct me on that), so what we need to do is figure out a way to get competitive on defense (just competitive), cut out all the stupid penalties, and figure out how to not be so inept on special teams to keep us at or above the .500 mark going forward and then decisions will get made on the head man at the end of the contract.
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Post by Lenoir Cat on Oct 28, 2018 12:14:03 GMT -5
We are getting better and this team is getting close. I don't believe that any of our coaches should or will get fired. I guess we will have to agree to disagree. Coach Wiley is a winner and has won everywhere he has gone. We have some good athletes. I don't know how you can fault the OC. We are scoring enough points to win in just about every game. The problem is the young defense. The problem is not a young defense. It is how Coach Speir has recruited for the past 7 years. He has loaded up on the Offensive Side of the ball & not recruited well on the defensive side of the ball. Western may turn out to be the number 1 offensive team in the SoCon but will finish last or next to last in the SoCon Standings. Remember, Offense sells tickets & defense wins Championships. In the NFL, the team with the best Defense usually wins the Super Bowl. Lack of Recruiting & Depth on the Defensive Side of the ball is directly linked to Coach Speir. He is using the same template that App State used 10 years ago & it is not working. Tyrie Adams is an outstanding player & he is exciting to watch. However, I don’t give a da$$ about his haughty stats when the Cats are not winning games. ETSU was a winnable game & the Coaches blew it. My friend, this is reality to me. I see what it is & not what I mentally want it to be. If you expect more out of WCU’s Football Program than what we are now getting, you are living in a fantasy world. One last comment, WCU was the best offensive team in the SoCon last season & finished 4th in the SoCon Standings because of a sorry defense. Just like Smack said in one of his posts, Coach Speir is a great guy but he is not a good HC. I have said the same thing during the past 4 years. Jim - please remember the defense players we don't have right now that should/could be playing... DL (Helms and Edwards) and our starting Saftey from last year (White)... He also recruited a stud LB that sadly lost his life to cancer... I am sure there are others that I am not remembering at this moment...
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Post by GaCat on Oct 28, 2018 12:44:25 GMT -5
FLA CAT, Funding is a condition/situation not an actual person calling bone-head offensive plays!
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Post by jim64 on Oct 28, 2018 12:58:45 GMT -5
The problem is not a young defense. It is how Coach Speir has recruited for the past 7 years. He has loaded up on the Offensive Side of the ball & not recruited well on the defensive side of the ball. Western may turn out to be the number 1 offensive team in the SoCon but will finish last or next to last in the SoCon Standings. Remember, Offense sells tickets & defense wins Championships. In the NFL, the team with the best Defense usually wins the Super Bowl. Lack of Recruiting & Depth on the Defensive Side of the ball is directly linked to Coach Speir. He is using the same template that App State used 10 years ago & it is not working. Tyrie Adams is an outstanding player & he is exciting to watch. However, I don’t give a da$$ about his haughty stats when the Cats are not winning games. ETSU was a winnable game & the Coaches blew it. My friend, this is reality to me. I see what it is & not what I mentally want it to be. If you expect more out of WCU’s Football Program than what we are now getting, you are living in a fantasy world. One last comment, WCU was the best offensive team in the SoCon last season & finished 4th in the SoCon Standings because of a sorry defense. Just like Smack said in one of his posts, Coach Speir is a great guy but he is not a good HC. I have said the same thing during the past 4 years. Jim - please remember the defense players we don't have right now that should/could be playing... DL (Helms and Edwards) and our starting Saftey from last year (White)... He also recruited a stud LB that sadly lost his life to cancer... I am sure there are others that I am not remembering at this moment... We have plenty of depth on Offense & very little on defense. I’m sorry you have not connected that to Speir. We are looking at another loosing season this year. How many more years do you think it will take Coach Speir to turn things around at WCU? I also think it is a joke for the AD to keep giving unjustified contract extensions to HC’s in Football & Basketball. No matter how bad the Football Program becomes in the next 2 years, Eaton can’t do anything about it because Coach Speir has a 2 year extension on his contract. What a convenient excuse to do nothing.
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Post by Recent Grad on Oct 28, 2018 14:16:56 GMT -5
Not sure you have a clue Stinky, all you are viewing are outputs. Have you asked about inputs to this program? Until THIS YEAR Speir had roughly 50% of the recruiting budget as others in SoCon. Until THIS YEAR Speir had roughly 75% the available scholarships of other in SoCon. Of course, don't let something like the FACTS get in your way of simple mindedness! Very informative webinar last week we're all of this was laid out. No excuses, but FACTS! If you don't do you homework your views will continue to be "Stinky". Out. It is my understanding that Football & Basketball are fully funded as far as Scholarships are concerned. Are you counting the Scholarship Players that are redshirted by Speir? Until this year, football was fundex at half in-state and half out-of-state on scholarships. The privates are literally 100% out of state as they only have one price. I "think" Chatty is funded 100% out of state, unsure of others. Given that, how can you question the success Speir has had at WCU? If you think we can compete with half the squad from NC, we can agree to disagree!
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Post by mtncat1 on Oct 28, 2018 14:40:48 GMT -5
RE: Breaking in 4 new O line, won't Grady Thomas be back? Also, won't Harper and Wilhoite be back? Thomas has quite a few starts and the other two have seen quite a bit of playing time. I think O line should be in decent shape next year. Maybe Smack can give us his insight on the O-Line for next year, if he still cares to opine.
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Post by Lenoir Cat on Oct 28, 2018 14:49:52 GMT -5
Jim - please remember the defense players we don't have right now that should/could be playing... DL (Helms and Edwards) and our starting Saftey from last year (White)... He also recruited a stud LB that sadly lost his life to cancer... I am sure there are others that I am not remembering at this moment... We have plenty of depth on Offense & very little on defense. I’m sorry you have not connected that to Speir. We are looking at another loosing season this year. How many more years do you think it will take Coach Speir to turn things around at WCU? I also think it is a joke for the AD to keep giving unjustified contract extensions to HC’s in Football & Basketball. No matter how bad the Football Program becomes in the next 2 years, Eaton can’t do anything about it because Coach Speir has a 2 year extension on his contract. What a convenient excuse to do nothing. I can't find the thread that posted the records for WCU football on but I can guarantee during Coach Waters reign that you take out the 1969, 1974, 1983 and 1984 seasons, there were a ton of 4-7, 5-6, 6-5 and 7-5 seasons... There are seasons where we had only 2 or 3 wins... This is in no way saying that Coach Waters is not the greatest coach WCU ever had but just to offer some reality... Even when our record dipped a little, we always seemed to rebound... You take away the first years of Coach Speirs time in Cullowhee and you will find his record is very comparable... Also, we have never won a SoCon championship (although I would argue that the 1983 team was the true champion!)... Lastly we all need to remember that while there are literally a handful of us that post, there are tons of other eyes scanning these boards... Some of these eyes could be current players... Some could be recruits... We are ALL frustrated... We ALL want WCU to win in any amd everygame they play... We ALL want championships... We should always remember that... Skip
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Post by wheecats on Oct 28, 2018 14:51:40 GMT -5
It is my understanding that Football & Basketball are fully funded as far as Scholarships are concerned. Are you counting the Scholarship Players that are redshirted by Speir? Until this year, football was fundex at half in-state and half out-of-state on scholarships. The privates are literally 100% out of state as they only have one price. I "think" Chatty is funded 100% out of state, unsure of others. Given that, how can you question the success Speir has had at WCU? If you think we can compete with half the squad from NC, we can agree to disagree! If I’m getting this right, you think NC isn’t providing enough talent to recruit? Over 60% of kids play in-state ball in NC. Apps roster...47% North Carolina players. Irrelevant jib-jab. Next excuse?
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Post by catamountfanatic07 on Oct 28, 2018 15:00:18 GMT -5
We have plenty of depth on Offense & very little on defense. I’m sorry you have not connected that to Speir. We are looking at another loosing season this year. How many more years do you think it will take Coach Speir to turn things around at WCU? I also think it is a joke for the AD to keep giving unjustified contract extensions to HC’s in Football & Basketball. No matter how bad the Football Program becomes in the next 2 years, Eaton can’t do anything about it because Coach Speir has a 2 year extension on his contract. What a convenient excuse to do nothing. I can't find the thread that posted the records for WCU football on but I can guarantee during Coach Waters reign that you take out the 1969, 1974, 1983 and 1984 seasons, there were a ton of 4-7, 5-6, 6-5 and 7-5 seasons... There are seasons where we had only 2 or 3 wins... This is in no way saying that Coach Waters is not the greatest coach WCU ever had but just to offer some reality... Even when our record dipped a little, we always seemed to rebound... You take away the first years of Coach Speirs time in Cullowhee and you will find his record is very comparable... Also, we have never won a SoCon championship (although I would argue that the 1983 team was the true champion!)... Lastly we all need to remember that while there are literally a handful of us that post, there are tons of other eyes scanning these boards... Some of these eyes could be current players... Some could be recruits... We are ALL frustrated... We ALL want WCU to win in any amd everygame they play... We ALL want championships... We should always remember that... Skip Agreed Skip! These boards are viewed by everyone and I guarantee they are viewed by recruits. Hopefully any recruits who are considering WCU don’t listen to the nay-sayers who think we should replace the whole coaching staff in a down year. Next year when the defense is grown up I hope I can go back to these posts and repost them to the same people who will be all about the coaching staff etc when we are winning. If we had been winning SoCon championships over and over throughout the last couple decades I could see the negative talk but some of the people on here are absolutely ridiculous with their thinking
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Post by wcugrad95 on Oct 28, 2018 15:08:34 GMT -5
Actually catamountfanatic07, if we are winning there will be very little traffic on the board (until something goes wrong). I noticed it was only a few people posting in the Mercer game until we started playing poorly. And then yesterday I was basically talking to myself until it got ugly at the end - up through our 30-15 lead this thread was 1 and 1/2 pages and now it is going to go to 6 pages. The posting also ***seemed*** more light early last season when we were rolling, but then picked up as we limped forward after the Furman game. Human nature I guess.
That being said, I try to be realistic in my posts, so I provide facts (good and bad) and I also complain about coaching just like many others. I will still be around to read and post stuff when we are 3-8 or when we are 8-3!
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