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Post by wcuecu2010 on Jan 12, 2019 22:56:08 GMT -5
Unrealistic expectations I think, that is basically saying we can only lose to NC State and Alabama. I wish that was all but we are likely to lose a game or 2 in SoCon at best. I think a contract extension is warranted at a .500 season, yes 6-6. So, you think a man with 8 years under his belt, and with only 3 winning seasons during his tenure, deserves a new contract? You would NEVER buy that for your beloved EZU, and we should not buy that at WCU. Montgomery only got 3 years at EZU, why should Speir get 11 or 12, with a 3-5 record? Mark Speir is a good man, just not a good head coach, and that's too bad. But, eight years is more than enough to prove yourself as a head coach. Unless he brings home a championship and makes the playoffs, he should not get a new contract. That is not firing him, that's just not giving him a new contract. Totally different scenario, Montgomery flat out sucked as a head coach and in player development, good recruiter but that is about it. He was also a product of Compher so he had to go. Montgomery just isn't head coach material maybe a good assistant. But also, there is a difference if WCU was in the FBS and those 2014, 2015, and 2017 seasons where Speir had won 7 games, WCU would have likely been playing in a bowl game. Someday Speir will be a legend at WCU like Waters is.
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Post by WesternFan on Jan 13, 2019 7:07:09 GMT -5
I can't believe that someone thinks Speir deserves a new contract if he ONLY WINS 5 GAMES. To me it's unthinkable 3 voters would give a new contract without even a winning season. This is the thought process that has gotten WCU to the PITIFUL situation football has been in for the last 40 years in Cullowhee. Please, whoever voted for the 5 wins, please explain why a man with a 3-5 winning record and two straight losing seasons deserves to be the head coach of Western Carolina football? If you just want to play football, this program should go non-scholarship and join the Pioneer Football League as we have no business in the SoCon if our intention is not to be competitive and win championships. In that case, Speir would be fine. That would be me who voted the 5 wins. Why, because Speir is building the foundation to build WCU into a winner for the long-term, not looking for the quick fix of coaches that are only using us as a stepping stone for something bigger. Considering what Speir had to get through when he took over, the first 2 years should not even count against him. So giving him those 2 years as a mulligan, He has had winning seasons in 2014, 2015, and 2017, losing seasons in 2016 and 2018. If you take away the 2012 and 2013 season he has done pretty good for a WCU head coach and to be honest he is about on par to Bob Waters since WCU entered the Division 1 phase, if you compare Speir's record from 2014-2018 and Water's record from 1977 to 1988 and with the exception of the 1 National Championship appearance (in which WCU did not win the conference), Waters and Speir's winning percentage are not that much off. I remember in the early 2000s all of the Appy fans were wanting Jerry Moore fired, especially remember my own brother and saying that the game had passed him back in 2004 and then the next year they go on and win 3 straight national championships and defeat Michigan. It took Jerry Moore how long? With Speir, the goal is just to be able to get to the playoffs and maybe a conference championship before we can think of more. Also, I don't want to us to go back to another Dennis Wagner or even Kent Briggs type of situation. When we let go of Bleil, so unless you are going to find a coach that will come in an make an immediate fix, it is too risky and "dumb" to let a coach go that is winning 5, 6 or 7 games with the history WCU has had. Even with a quick fix coach who would leave immediately, that might give us a year or two to be excited and then WCU would likely go back to mediocrity or sucking. I would rather build it slowly for consistent success. Now if we only win 1,2,3 or 4 games then yes, contract should not be renewed. Speir has already had 7 years to build a foundation. After 4 years he had all his own players. The foundation is build, period. He should be winning now, if he's ever going to win. What did he do with his foundation last year, he won 3 games. You are full of it, you want a new coach for ECU after a couple years, but you want WCU saddled with a coach with a 3-5 record to be awarded a new contract. You are no Western Carolina fan. Fake fan period.
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Post by WesternFan on Jan 13, 2019 7:13:12 GMT -5
So, you think a man with 8 years under his belt, and with only 3 winning seasons during his tenure, deserves a new contract? You would NEVER buy that for your beloved EZU, and we should not buy that at WCU. Montgomery only got 3 years at EZU, why should Speir get 11 or 12, with a 3-5 record? Mark Speir is a good man, just not a good head coach, and that's too bad. But, eight years is more than enough to prove yourself as a head coach. Unless he brings home a championship and makes the playoffs, he should not get a new contract. That is not firing him, that's just not giving him a new contract. Totally different scenario, Montgomery flat out sucked as a head coach and in player development, good recruiter but that is about it. He was also a product of Compher so he had to go. Montgomery just isn't head coach material maybe a good assistant. But also, there is a difference if WCU was in the FBS and those 2014, 2015, and 2017 seasons where Speir had won 7 games, WCU would have likely been playing in a bowl game. Someday Speir will be a legend at WCU like Waters is.You will never live to see that day, cause it ain't going to happen. He has a losing season this year, he's gone. Period. Comparing Speir to Bob Waters is possibly the dumbest thing I've ever heard. Are you sure you attended Western Carolina? The more you post the more I realize you are a ECU fan in drag. I've seen you called out by other WCU fans in the past, now I know they were right on.
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Post by wcuecu2010 on Jan 14, 2019 5:05:37 GMT -5
[/quote]Speir has already had 7 years to build a foundation. After 4 years he had all his own players. The foundation is build, period. He should be winning now, if he's ever going to win. What did he do with his foundation last year, he won 3 games. You are full of it, you want a new coach for ECU after a couple years, but you want WCU saddled with a coach with a 3-5 record to be awarded a new contract. You are no Western Carolina fan. Fake fan period. [/quote]
First off he has been winning, 3 out of the last 5 year have been winning seasons. The first 2 years, I give Speir a mulligan. Our program has been crap for decades, have Waters only Bleil has done any justice to WCU. Speir has raised the bar because of his success. WCU's program and finances are not on par with a lot of other SoCon so its going to take longer. Last year we were super young and in-experienced, lets see how this season plays out before we start having a hissy fit about Speir. But we are playing 2 FBS schools (NCSU and Alabama, would love to beat those but I doubt it) so out of 12 games, there are 2 loses in 2019. The. N. Greenville game will not count towards FCS playoff and the SoCon is not the easiest place to win. So its likely we will finish again 7-5, 6-6 or even 5-7 but it determines how competitive we are. No you do not screw up something that is building just to gamble on an unknown that can set us back to the Dennis Wagner days. Seems you would prefer that gamble?
We were heavily inexperienced last year, very young defense, and green. We shot ourselves in the foot numerous times last year and the fumbles on the 1 yard line and turnovers are more on the players not the coaches. We should have won the ETSU game, Citadel game, and Furman game, but woulda, coulda shoulda. But the players caused that not the coaches.y I did say that anything below 5 wins and Speir should not get an multi year extension, but 5 wins and then yes, he should because again improvement.
Also, I am an ECU fan sure, because I went there. I paid money to both schools and have a degree from both schools. The situation there is much different and I already explained that in the previous post. Call me a fake fan all you want, but I support WCU as much as I possibly can financially and as an alum and fan. Unlike a lot of people who complain and want to withhold support because of win/loss record or because they don't like something about a coach. It is one thing to cut back if someone is struggling financially or can't make the commit due to unforseen circumstances, its something more immature to withhold support because supporters are not getting their way. I still support in some capacity no matter what.
Last year, I went to all the WCU home games and 1 away game. How many ECU football games did I go to last year "0" I also gave 90% more to the Catamount club last year than I did at ECU. I have pledged and paying to the Catamount club again this year and again donating more than to the Pirate Club. I will be getting season tickets again and if I go to ECU it will be games that don't affect WCU home game.
So call me a fake fan all you want, how about saying it to my face during football season or how about during a baseball game instead of hiding behind a message board and calling me fake.
So i guess, if since I support Speir and Eaton I must not be a true Catamount, Whatever!!!!
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Post by wcuecu2010 on Jan 14, 2019 5:16:40 GMT -5
Comparing Speir to Bob Waters is possibly the dumbest thing I've ever heard. Are you sure you attended Western Carolina? The more you post the more I realize you are a ECU fan in drag. I've seen you called out by other WCU fans in the past, now I know they were right on. Waters is a legend and brought the programs from NAIA, Division II to Division 1, however, comparing Waters Division 1 success and Speir (minus the first 2 seasons of Speir) and their records are not that much different. Do the math yourself, I already did in a prior post. So not dumb!!!! However, yes different eras but Waters had already been firmly in place at WCU when WCU made the move to Division 1. Speir had a mess to clean up. Im not worried about being called out by others who do not know me or my commitment to WCU, believe what you want to believe. I guess they just don't like the fact that I support two schools and unlike many who support Cryolina, Puke, Clemson, etc..I actually attended and got a degree from those schools and am not just a Walmart fan but an alumni of them. I will continue to support WCU and ECU, I will continue to go to both to enjoy the games and i will continue supporting both schools and again I tend to give a lot more to WCU than ECU. So I will see you at the games, that is IF you and all those who call me out actually show up to support WCU. God bless and have a nice day Go Cats!!!
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Post by FLCATAMOUNT on Jan 14, 2019 7:33:58 GMT -5
Anything less than 10 wins indicates to me the season is a fluke, like the other three "7" win seasons. If he wins 10, I'd be ok with a 3-year contract, no more than 3 years. That is the most ridiculous thing you have ever posted. So he can lose to Alabama and NC State but if he loses to Wofford, you would not renew his contract. You are not serious. Did Speir do something to hurt your feelings...
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Post by wcu72 on Jan 14, 2019 8:14:40 GMT -5
Anything less than 10 wins indicates to me the season is a fluke, like the other three "7" win seasons. If he wins 10, I'd be ok with a 3-year contract, no more than 3 years. That is the most ridiculous thing you have ever posted. So he can lose to Alabama and NC State but if he loses to Wofford, you would not renew his contract. You are not serious. Did Speir do something to hurt your feelings... At any other school in the SoCon, and at just about any other school in the NCAA, Speir would have already been fired with his record and slim prospects for a winning season in 2019. I said 10 wins because he only deserves a new contract IF he does something spectacular. I don't expect him to win 10 games, but just a winning season should not be enough to win a new contract. His contract should expire at the end of next year and WCU and Speir should part ways. That's why I said 10 wins, it's people like you that said 5 wins should get him a new contract, that got WCU football in the pitiful state that it's in. Is Speir your brother in law?
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Post by FLCATAMOUNT on Jan 14, 2019 8:36:48 GMT -5
That is the most ridiculous thing you have ever posted. So he can lose to Alabama and NC State but if he loses to Wofford, you would not renew his contract. You are not serious. Did Speir do something to hurt your feelings... At any other school in the SoCon, and at just about any other school in the NCAA, Speir would have already been fired with his record and slim prospects for a winning season in 2019. I said 10 wins because he only deserves a new contract IF he does something spectacular. I don't expect him to win 10 games, but just a winning season should not be enough to win a new contract. His contract should expire at the end of next year and WCU and Speir should part ways. That's why I said 10 wins, it's people like you that said 5 wins should get him a new contract, that got WCU football in the pitiful state that it's in. Is Speir your brother in law? Touche. LOL. He is not my brother in law. I do disagree that it is solely people like me that have gotten Western Carolina football into the pitiful state that it is in. I also think that firing a head coach on average of about every 3 or 4 years over the past 35 years has also contributed. In addition, I also think bad hiring decisions, lack of adequate university funding, etc. have been a big part of the decision. You may be right, but if we do get rid of Coach Speir at the end of next season, you need to reduce your expectation for the next several season, because we will start over again for the next 3 years. You have to admit that Speir has recruited well. We have 2 NFL players after a long drought in the pros and the student athletes we are bringing in now are much better than we have ever had. Also, if your replace Speir, Western needs to spend the money to get a good coach and needs to double funding for football if the new man is going to be successful because with the support the university gives now, you will not see the win / loss record improve. I see the scenario going like this. Speir wins 7 or 8 games next year, and you and others call for his head. Speir gets fired. A new man comes in and brings a new staff. The university does nothing to change the systemic under funding problem. In 5 years the new guy has a losing record and you are calling for his head and saying we hired the wrong guy and the cycle repeats itself. I know this because I have seen it for 40 years over and over again. I am surprised you do not remember this but people do tend to have short memories.
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Post by catamount87 on Jan 14, 2019 9:34:21 GMT -5
Personally, I think we need to go at least 6-6 this year. Anything less and some changes need to be made, especially if we stink it up on defense again. I already thing changes in the special teams are overdue. This brings me to my one criticism of coach Speir, he's been slow to make changes when it's clear a change needs to be made. Let's go back a couple of seasons, he let the DC go when the season and defense went to hell in a hand basket. It seemed like then he showed the gumption to make needed changes but nada since.
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Post by wcu72 on Jan 14, 2019 9:57:38 GMT -5
Personally, I think we need to go at least 6-6 this year. Anything less and some changes need to be made, especially if we stink it up on defense again. I already thing changes in the special teams are overdue. This brings me to my one criticism of coach Speir, he's been slow to make changes when it's clear a change needs to be made. Let's go back a couple of seasons, he let the DC go when the season and defense went to hell in a hand basket. It seemed like then he showed the gumption to make needed changes but nada since. 87, I don't mean this as a personal attack on you, but I don't understand the Western Carolina fan base's willingness to accept mediocrity in football and basketball. This will be Coach Speir's 8th season as head coach. FLcat is willing to accept 5 wins, you six wins for a new contract. I just don't understand it. The university will never change its tactics in hiring coaches or athletic funding until the fan base demands it.
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